Eric Fong

Eric Fong: …was reaching this point, you know, where you’re either gonna live or you’re gonna die. I’d be willing to bet a full quarter, if not more, of the people I represent feel guilty that they’re getting a lawyer. There’s a reason we have such a a poor reputation and the profession for a lot of people has lost sight of the nobility of what we’re trusted to do.

Narrator: Welcome to “Celebrating Justice,” presented by the Trial Lawyer’s Journal and CloudLex. The next gen legal cloud platform built exclusively for personal injury law. Get inspired by the nation’s top trial lawyers and share in the stories that shape our pursuit of justice. Follow the podcast and join our community at www.triallawyersjournal.com. Now, here’s your host, Editor of TLJ and VP of Marketing at CloudLex, Chad Sands.

Chad Sands: I would like you to take your time with it. I call it your origin story, right? Why did you want to become a trial lawyer?

Eric Fong: You know, you you get asked the question why why why do you do what you do? And for me, the question is well what when, why, how did you decide, did you know that you wanted to be a trial lawyer? And you know, I think life is too windy to go from point A to point B. There there are people who, when they are five, six, seven, eight, nine, who say, “I want to do this,” and fulfill that fate and destiny, you know, and and like live the life that they had planned. But I don’t think that fits the narrative of probably 99% of the humans on this planet. I think that you know, life throws us so much just hardships and and and gifts and blessings. It’s when you’re presented with these opportunities or when time and space show you something, do you run with it? And so I never wanted to be a lawyer even when I was in law school. I went to law school because I I grew up in a family that education was just stressed. Like you y you it was it was it was — it was a given I’d graduate from high school, so graduation meant nothing. When I graduated from college, the graduation meant nothing because I was just graduating to something I knew I was gonna do or I was told I had to do, which was get some postgraduate degree. And I I I I wanted to do business school or law school ’cause I majored in sociology. And so I just went to law school to keep going to school, you know. And I wasn’t a good student. Didn’t focus on the academic part of it and did just enough to get by. And when I graduated, I wasn’t gonna get any of the jobs that that the competitive law school dogma tells you or we believe we want, you know?

Chad Sands: Yeah.

Eric Fong: So I took the only job I could get, which was a public defender in in a city called Bremerton, Washington. I mean it’s it’s kind of an armpit place. And I was making re like I I wanna say twenty-four thousand dollars a year. This was back in nineteen ninety-six.

Chad Sands: Uh-huh.

Eric Fong: And and then I also was given an opportunity to make some commission off private cases I brought in. It was when public defenders could also do private work. So they’d contract with people like the guy who hired me. And you know what, man, when I was thrown into that courtroom, it w it it found me. I I couldn’t I’ve always had a soft spot in my heart for people who who f the time they were born d I hate to say this, but the the the odds were so stacked against them, you know. Instead of being raised by parents that like me that were teaching me, you know, how to study, they were being raised by parents that were teaching them how to sell drugs or parents are doing drugs with their kids. You know, like those are by and large the folks that get enmeshed in the criminal justice system. And and so I I loved help helping them. And I cared more about their cases a lot of times than than they did. You know, it’s funny as I’m looking at you, it’s a split screen and I see a big dump truck behind me. You know, and and and we’re out here doing another passion of mine, which is gardening and landscaping stuff. Y you know, but back to Bremerton Municipal Court. And you know, one of the things that you hear a lot today is how hard it is to get jury trial experience. It it is. It’s the jury trial in some ways is like an endangered species, especially for civil lawyers, it’s really hard to get cases to go to trial and get the experience that you need that it takes to get comfortable with, you know, public speaking and expressing logic and emotion and combining the two to weave a story that that inspires a community, you know. But back then I was trying cases every week I’d have five, six cases set for trial. You know, and I was trying a case, multiple cases, you know, every month for ten years, just constantly in trial. And that grew into federal cases. It grew into felon you know, f felony cases, all public defense work. And and so for eleven years I just lived in the courtroom doing trials and at the same time falling in love with the civil process and holding, you know, corporations, the government accountable because the great equalizer in this country, the highest form of local government is the jury trial. And so it matched logic, wit, emotion, strategy. You know, I love board games and chess and love to play this game called Axis and Allies, you know, where you would strategize long term moves. And it just turns out I I was good at it. The reward, you know, this profession, we’re not unlike nurses and doctors. We help people. You know, when you represent people, you help. And there I don’t believe there’s a more noble calling than social justice and fighting for the rights of people who are being taken advantage of or have been hurt and need someone to help…

Chad Sands: You know, that reminds me in my youth ’cause I grew up in the Paci Pacific Northwest. We talked about this. There’s a there was a a local Northwest punk band called MxPx who have the song “Move to Bremerton.”

Eric Fong: Mike Herrera, man, I know him. He’s he you know, he and I used to hang out.

Chad Sands: …a band in high school and we opened for them at this club called the Paradox, which is by the Tacoma Dome. Yes, it sounds like, you know, you kind of coasted through law school or again, this idea that you were always pressured or expected to keep going with your education, but that you maybe really didn’t fall in love with being a lawyer until you stepped into the courtroom.

Eric Fong: Yeah, that’s exactly right. You know, another kind of lucky, like we talked about fate and luck and all this stuff. The guy who hired me, like like so many lawyers are geared towards efficiency and just you know, move things along and and get a case done.

Chad Sands: Yeah.

Eric Fong: That’s not a trial lawyer. You know, a trial lawyer is like a big time investment in a case that develops over years and takes a huge commitment, a tremendous amount of resources. And the guy who hired me was was a fierce advocate of the jury trial. And he he encouraged me, “Don’t settle cases, go try.” How many, how many young kids are thrown into an opportunity fresh out of law school with someone who’s encouraging you to go try cases in an environment where you get to try as many cases as you want, you know?

Chad Sands: I mean, I think especially now in the PI world and it’s not just the settlement mills, quote unquote unquote, but it’s just kind of a business model that a lot of firms have, then it’s a lot easier. There’s not a and there’s not as much risk. There’s a lot of risk going to trial.

Eric Fong: You know, there’s a reason we have such a a a poor reputation. Because for for so many, it is a business model. It’s a it’s a means to to satisfy some personal need for greed, for s for success, for money, you know, to go and do the extravagant things that money allows you to do. And and the profession for a lot of people has lost sight of the nobility of what we’re trusted to do. A and so, you know, we we do face a backlash when we stand up in front of a jury because we’ve hurt a lot of people and we’ve create an image that that is distasteful, right?

Chad Sands: And not always, you know, necessarily by the PI world, but also just society and the optics that they see a personal injury lawyer or lawyers in general.

Eric Fong: And there’s a there is a concerted, sophisticated effort by big business, the Chamber of Commerce, to knock out the knees of the one person that can get up and hold them accountable, right? And so there’s actually a sophisticated marketing campaign to infiltrate the masses with an idea that there’s something wrong with lawsuits. I I’d be willing to bet a full quarter, if not more, of the people I represent feel guilty that that that they’re getting a lawyer. A lot of people don’t even pursue a claim because they believe in this idea that they’ve been sold, right? That their constitutional right and what is so necessary for the arc of society is bad.

Chad Sands: What do you think makes you unique as a trial lawyer?

Eric Fong: Hmm. Well, all right. What makes me unique as a trial lawyer is what makes you unique as a person. It’s it’s it’s my thumbprint, you know? The hard part is gaining the confidence to express your inner soul and your thoughts. Like it, like are the inner the the logic, this the thoughts that spin in our head get in the way of soulful communication. And in the back of you is a picture of Gerry Spence. And I owe that man I I want to say everything. Obviously I don’t owe him everything, but I can’t imagine where I would be had I not met him and the g and and his encouragement to the people that he came across to discover who you are and and and have the confidence to express that. And so what makes me unique is the same thing that makes every lawyer unique. It’s it’s it’s the gift that we have been given that is this life. The hard part is is to transcend or to go through the journey of deprogramming the mind that was layered upon us from the day we were born. You know, Mark Twain has this great quote, I love that the first lie he ever told was when he cried. Right, that we can do things to to manipulate or to get something. And then as we get socialized and we get into formal education, we get compared to other people. And then we get this messaging of what it’s supposed to be, what I’m supposed to be, or what you’re supposed to do, that creates these expectations. And that gets in the way of just being free to express who you are and what you want to say. The hard work of of digging deep into the parts of you that you’re ashamed of, that you’re proud of, y you know, how to express just heartfelt truth, unfiltered, as you know it in that moment, is is what Gerry Spence you know, and the Gerry Spence method, frankly, is what we is what he taught me.

Chad Sands: Yeah, and you have been a teacher at the Gerry Spence Method for a long time. And I interview a good portion of my guests have gone through Thunderhead Ranch. Can you share a story about Gerry?

Eric Fong: My God. I I mean I’ve man, I remember I was walking with him. Part part of my journey is struggling with addiction. And I I was reaching this point, you know, where you’re either gonna live or you’re gonna die. It i i i it when you when you fall into the abyss and you you know that you’ve you’re wasting your life. And if you don’t do something about it soon, it it you you could die, you know. It it it’s like this black tar that coats the soul. And there’s this glimmer, there’s just this faint glimmer of your soul still flickering, you know. And I was I was struggling with that at a time and we were walking and I was very early on in in my sobriety. And I was express you know, I was talking to him about my… I get whatever. And he and he he he go he looks at me and he goes, “You know, it it took it took me about ninety days before I started to realize, ‘My God, I can actually think. I’m smart.’” And you know, that’s not a like crazy story about Gerry Spence, but it’s a story where he recognizes the and empathizes with the people he’s around and he connects with them at really deep levels. Like his ability to empathize and to feel and then to express his vulnerability is is y you know, I mean, it’s it’s magic. You know, I don’t know. I mean, there’s just I’ve had I you know, I when when I went through the ranch in two thousand and one, Gerry was there from nine AM to nine PM. He worked his ass off. He’d come in every morning and pontificate and share and y you know, give his thoughts on whatever we were doing that day, from jury selection to closing to, you know, understanding what it’s like to be your client or what have you. And so I mean, I spent years hanging out with him at that level and teaching with him and learning with him. And I I I consider myself, you know, very lucky to be one of the few who know him and have spent that amount of time with him to understand the potential that we have as humans and the waste that that if we’re not careful will encompass us.

Chad Sands: It also says on your bio that you’re recognized in the trial lawyer of the year by the plaintiff’s bar, but also the defense bar. So have you do you do both sides?

Eric Fong: No, I don’t. You know, I mean they just I i you know they it it was it’s it’s more of a professional kind of acknowledgement from the other side, right? That this is an ethical y you know person that deserves our recognition as an opposing group.

Chad Sands: It could almost feel more important than being recognized by, you know, the plaintiff’s bar, I feel like.

Eric Fong: It it’s a I’m proud of it, you know. It I’m proud of it. But I’ll have to say that these awards and recognitions I mean I’m how I’m really blessed, right? I mean, how many people get these kinds of awards?

Chad Sands: Yeah.

Eric Fong: And, you know, there’s also this part of me that recognizes… I mean I’m conflicted in some ways by it. I don’t won’t know if I can say much more than that, other than, you know, I really struggle with with recognition or owning the part of me that is kind of being pushed out there as some form of leader.

Chad Sands: Mm-hmm.

Eric Fong: I don’t and I don’t know what that’s about. What I do know is it was really hard for me to accept a compliment for very long. Like someone would give me a compliment and I’d be like, “Shot.” Yeah, I would never I would never allow that to hit and register. And then at some point it hit me I’m I’m insulting the person who’s sharing something with you.

Chad Sands: Right. Like water off a duck’s back, I think is one term.

Eric Fong: Yeah, you know, but this this you know, I part of it too is… this profession that we’re in, and now we’re going back to this kind of what we were talking about earlier about greed and imagery and this kind of stuff and expectations, right? Is we glamorize big verdicts. We glamorize success. We give awards for y you know, the people who s who have somehow supposedly achieved something. And I really don’t I I really don’t believe in that kind of stuff, you know? And and so I I I I do struggle with these… these awards. But I am proud to get — I mean, you know, it’s…

Chad Sands: I mean I think also it you could you could also just maybe boil it down to well, the award was really for your client and the work you did for them.

Eric Fong: Yep, for sure. For sure.

Chad Sands: …of clients and cases. I mean, you’ve done over a hundred jury trials. So I know it’s gonna be hard to choose one. And you’ve got some historic cases, you know, that have gotten big amounts, but it’s always not about the amount, as you said, and I agree.

Eric Fong: Yes.

Chad Sands: And we’re not giving awards out for the biggest jury verdict or anything like that. But do you have a story about a case that really had an impact on you?

Eric Fong: You know the you know the case that I think about the most is this young sailor. He was a nuclear engineer, worked on submarines, you know, the the the he was a nuclear engineer and twenty-something and wrong place, wrong time, totally innocent. And he’s driving down the road, he’s got this like car that has this super loud muffler and the spoiler, the wind kind of, you know, think of “Fast and the Furious” type car. And this motorcycle, people were racing in in or or there were reports of people driving recklessly, you know, earlier in the day. And he’s coming home from work, and this motorcycle’s hauling ass in the fast lane. He he moves to pass a car at exactly the moment, you know, where the motorcycle he doesn’t see it. And the motorcycle y he dies. And the verdict was read and he just burst out in the most painful… I cry, like this sound, right, that haunts me, as they said, “Guilty.” And his mom, you know, comes up and asks the guard, you know, “Can I hug him?” As as he’s gonna be cuffed and taken away and sent to prison. And he was innocent, you know, he w he was innocent and… I I like those are the ones that that I I can’t stop thinking about, you know, like I I just and and yeah, you know, and then you know, on the flip side, on a more positive note, in that same arena in the criminal world, you know, case that I’m super proud of, just a young lawyer and I kept seeing the same people over and over again being charged with criminal trespass. Criminal trespass. I’m like, “Well, what’d you do?” He’s like, “I was visiting my mom and I just got arrested for trespassing.” You know, then I’d see, you know, you know, another person that same day, you know, like, and I’d keep seeing the same people. And all they were doing was going into the low income housing to to to you know to to to just visit and hang out with friends and family. And they were trespassed from the area because they were, you know, whatever, alcoholics or troublemakers and this and that. And so the police decided arbitrarily with the housing authority, “You’re not allowed to come in here no matter what. You step foot into this public housing, we’re gonna arrest you.” And and so I consolidated all these cases, and you know, we we we we you know, we we this was a long time ago and argued it twice in the Supreme Court, you know, the like the the crime control measures to to to deprive individuals of hanging out with their family. Like how how is this possible, you know? And the Supreme Court looked at it and they ar I argued it, you know, a couple times there, because they were confused or had issues and thoughts. And at the end of the day, you you know, they agreed, you know, there’s a constitutional right that we as humans have, and the government can’t step on it. And if a family member wants to hang out with a family member on government low income subsidized housing, you can’t just arrest the person. You have to have some grounds for it. And y you know, to me, that speaks to the work I did as a public defender, that it was so important. It’s so overlooked that if you don’t have lawyers that are willing to take on you know these different fights or the creativity or imagination to create a due process argument on criminal trespass and constitutional rights. Right. I mean, like I I did that. I created it and it tur it was a big deal. So those are two cases that y you know, I’m proud of. And of course, you know, I don’t do a lot of criminal law right now. Most of what I do is is civil work. And be you know, because of Gerry Spence and my hard work, you know, I’ve I’ve I’ve I’ve able to get the two largest compensatory verdicts in Washington State. You know, like the justice for one person for something that someone did to hurt you know, I’ve got the two largest verdicts. And and so that’s — that’s a sense of accomplishment and pride because, you know, these are cases that are redefining you know, the legal landscape in Washington State. And and insurance policies nationally. Y you know, the I got a ninety-one million dollar verdict on a premise liability case where a gas station convenience store opened twenty-four hours a day is ignoring the laws to protect its employees and customers because those stores get robbed after midnight. They’re dangerous. And so I got this verdict and then I I know, you know, from a friend, a source, high up in in a major insurance company that insures, you know, these kind of establishments, that they weren’t gonna insure unless they improved the the the training and the policies and the and the parameters to operate one of these late night retails. That’s pretty cool.

Chad Sands: Yeah, it is very cool. Which I again, the optics, right? Some people can some people look at it as just like this big, this big number, right? Like what’s the life worth or why, you know, ninety-one million dollars is too much money. But the truth is, is that you were able to hold the company accountable and now the insurance companies kind of wake up and be like, “You know what? We actually should kind of like have these rules in place in terms of how how a company should operate.”

Eric Fong: Yeah.

Chad Sands: It’s it it changes things.

Eric Fong: It does change things. You know, the crazy thing about money and that juries get it, okay? These corporations, that’s like they find that kind of change in their couch. Ninety-one million to the to the entities that own like a can think of what a convenience store is. Okay, they sell gasoline, alcohol, and cigarettes. Who’s running who’s who’s profiting off of that stuff? And and and the layers up if you follow the money to the top, you get to you get to like SoftBank. You get to the largest corporations on the planet and these are just like venture capital establishments that are one of their many ways of just funneling money from the public into their pockets. And and and the lengths that they go to collect more and more of it is disgusting.

Chad Sands: Yeah, especially a convenience store. You think about oil and then, you know, food corporations like Mars Inc. making all the candy.

Eric Fong: Yep. That’s right. Yeah that they they they they sell gas, cigarettes, alcohol, and snacks.

Chad Sands: Yes. Which is like which is like five companies or you know, ten companies.

Eric Fong: Yeah. They own they own the companies that deliver the oil, they own the companies that are bringing the Doritos. I mean it’s it’s all this disgusting web.

Chad Sands: You know, you shared that case about your loss. And a lot of people a lot of lawyers don’t like talking about their losses. They would never bring bring that up, even though it probably sits in their mind just like that case does for you. And in TLJ number three, we had an article called “The Art of Losing” by a guy named Gary Gwilliam, who’s still doing it when he’s eighty-six. Why do you think lawyers hesitate to talk about the loss?

Eric Fong: Well, you know, I think our ego is really fragile and we don’t want to be seen as a loser, right? We want to be seen as successful. And y you know, part of it, you know, Gerry Spence, you know, would would his hallmark never lost a criminal trial, right? That did a lot of harm to a lot of people because you know you go through the program and the first thing you do is lose. And and and and you know it losing has taken on this connotation that’s really shameful. You know, you’re a loser. And the mentality should be, you know, the healthy mentality, the art of losing, would be to recognize that losing’s part of life. Look at the great athletes, you know, they’re gonna lose. That’s just you gotta lose to win. And then you’re gonna lose to win. And it’s just this it’s just this cycle, it’s this process, it’s inevitable. And y you know, it’s like it it shouldn’t it shouldn’t be viewed the way we view it. But the other thing that happens is that it’s so deeply painful to lose. Like like we’re responsible for a life. And if we lose that case at trial, that like we could it’s it’s not unreal, it’s not unreasonable to say, “Well, I ruined a life.” And and and and so we as a profession carry this weight of this responsibility. You know, responsibility is a weight. And and and it’s it’s it’s a big it’s a real thing, man. It’s it’s a this is a this is a tough profession.

Chad Sands: It sure it sure is. Even though I’m not a not a not a lawyer, I maybe should have been, but I’ve interviewed enough and I can recognize enough the the pressure, you know, and the risk and the burden that is carried. I think maybe that’s a lot of why there is a lot of stress and of substance abuse amongst lawyers.

Eric Fong: Yep. Yeah, I mean it’s it’s an escape, you know, like like if all you do is carry this responsibility, what’s your escape?

Chad Sands: Yeah. What what about another story? You know, I think your years as a public defender have probably really shaped you. I mean you talked about it, the people. What about one of those cases from your early years when you were a public defender?

Eric Fong: Man, there’s y you know, there’s so many that are flashing through my head right now. There was this young lady, same my gosh, very similar fact pattern to the nuclear engineer who was found guilty. But I met her, she she called me and and and she was like, “My lawyer doesn’t believe me. My lawyer doesn’t believe me.” And we’re a week away from trial, okay? I give her, you know, the quote. Her mom leverages her house, you know, taps into some line of credit to hire me. And… which by the way, y you know, the the price that we that… the going price for a lawyer is beyond the means of so many people. And it we’re not overcharge, at least I don’t, I don’t overcharge people. You know, back then it was a supremely reasonable price, but it was so far beyond what the average person could afford. But they they made this a lot of people had tap into their retirements and this and that, but they made the sacrifice and they hired me. And I show up to court and I want to get in. Just because they hire me doesn’t mean the court will let me in, right? We’re a week away from trial and courts like to keep things moving along. And the judge looks at me and and says, you know, “Are you ready to try this case in a week?” And I I say to the judge, “I can try this case as good as anyone with the workup that’s been done, but no one can effectively defend her because nothing’s been done. Here are all the things that haven’t been done that need to be done to adequately represent her.” We needed a accident reconstructionist because it involved, you know, windy, hilly roads and darkness where a pedestrian wearing dark walking in the wrong direction was hit. And then y you know, there’s skid marks. The the the the type of a skid mark you’ll know whether it’s accelerating or decelerating based on the width of the the the rubber that’s left on the road. You’ll get a splat you’ll get a debris field from the the things that are hit that will tell you all sorts of things, right? None of the most in witnesses that were out that night. No one had n nothing had been done. And so he says, “Okay, I’ll let you in.” You know, and I show up to court the day of trial and I you know… done everything I could to get ready because you assume you’re going to get a continuance, but you also assume it’s going to go to trial, so you have to be ready to go. And I show up there and the judge looks at me and says, “Are you ready to try the case today?” And I said, “No.” And I and she goes, “What are you talking about? We let you in and you said you could try the case.” And I said, “No.” I said, “I can try this case as good as anyone under the facts that’s been developed, but no one can effectively represent you know Darcy.” And she says, “We’ll see about this.” And she was really hostile, like, like really like the the energy was like off, you know, you know. And she’s and she orders me to sit in the hallway while she has the court reporter transcribe the hearing from the week before. She reads it into the record and then sanctions me thousands of dollars for what I’m doing. But she continued the case. That was the beginning of a surreal, like painful process where I would be so sick to my stomach every time I’d get in front of this judge, I’d have I’d have my partner go do the hearing. She’d have splotches and her veins would be popping in anger, you know, as as as we were going through the process of trying to get this case ready for trial. And y you know, I I did everything I do to work up a case which is borderline obsessive. And we eventually, you know, get in front of a jury. It comes in like a once every ten-year storm. There was like a week off during deliberations and the jury came back and y you know, found her not guilty. But that you know, and then, you know, a couple years later she calls me up and says says, “Hey, you know, I have a son and I wouldn’t have him if it wasn’t for you.” She’d be in prison. Y you know, so it’s it’s just it you know, there’s just… the the hostility that we face sometimes in just doing our job from the bench, right? So the the point of that story and why it jumps out at me was an impartial judge that was gonna do everything that she could do to prevent me from doing my job to just be a lawyer and represent someone that’s accused of a crime. Have no idea why.

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Eric Fong: Most painful thing that I have ever experienced was the shattering of who I thought I was. And it it the beginning of this kind of like discovery of myself started out in the lowest point of my life, which which is a divorce with two young kids. My my my children were four and one. And you go from like the pitter patter of feet and laughter and this idea, right, that I’m a father and that I’m a husband and that I’m responsible to having none of that available to you and not being the person that you think you are. And that was kind of the beginning of the end of a plunge into you know deep sorrow that was that was masked with substances that was was significant and impaired my ability to work, to have fun. I couldn’t look in the mirror, man. I hated what I saw. I couldn’t look in the mirror. You know, depression. And I was broke. Y you know, I had no cases ’cause I did I I I knew I couldn’t r help people. And so I was really at this crisis of like financial crisis. Like what are you gonna do? Like you you’ve maxed out your credit cards to buy Christmas presents. And y you know, I I reached this point y you know, where you’re just you either are gonna live or you’re gonna die. There’s there it that that those are the options that that are like available to you in life because it’s that extreme. And thank God, thank God I I figured it out, you know, and I found it through the twelve steps. Extraordinary program. I I’m a big believer in the twelve steps. Each little step is a simple philosophical truth that cannot be denied. Each step is a truth that cannot be denied. They’re strung together in a process where you work with someone who has been through what you’ve been through and they’re there to help you and support you and and to have some accountability and structure. And hold your hand as you recover. And what I found like they they they talk about the promises. And what I found on the other side of the abyss was the life that I always dreamed of. Now the damage had been done. You know, you can’t live a life like that and really hurt people, mainly who I think of are my ex-wife and my kids. You know, horrible, horrible, horrible that is gonna inf that that will affect them long term. But you know those are repairing, you know, the the the the the trust is rebuilt and I’ve been able to throw myself into a career that everything has just like come together that never would have been possible had I not applied y you know, the twelve steps to to heal my my hurt and my sickness. And so and so for that, you know, I mean that’s that that’s like if I could just say one thing, you know, that if you’re if that if you are hurting like that. Or you are in a place where you can’t look in the mirror. You’re not alone. It’s actually pretty you know, like a lot of humans go through this kind of suffering. I just hope you find the strength within yourself to to to seek help.

Narrator: You’ve been listening to Celebrating Justice presented by CloudLex and the Trial Lawyer’s Journal. Remember, the stories don’t end here. Visit www.triallawyersjournal.com to become part of our community and keep the conversation going. And for a deeper dive into the tools that empower personal injury law firms, visit www.cloudlex.com/tlj to learn.